#91 Architekt für konstruktive Präzision: Kann Reuse ein Entwurfsprinzip sein? - Pablo Garrido Arnaiz

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00:00:43: Welcome and greetings to the ninety-first episode of Studying To Build!

00:00:47: The Barnett's Campus Alumni Podcast presented by Gira.

00:00:50: I am Casting Kunekat And my guest today is Pablo Garrido Arnais.

00:00:55: Let's go.

00:00:56: Welcome to the Barnett Campus Alumni Podcast.

00:00:59: Pablo Garrido Arnais, you are an architect researcher and educator As I

00:01:13: want.

00:01:15: And in your work, you consistently connect practice research and teaching on circular construction as a very big topic for you.

00:01:26: You first studied architecture in Barcelona and later continued your studies in Mendrisio In Switzerland.

00:01:33: How did these two different contexts shape the understanding of architecture?

00:01:39: I

00:01:42: studied architecture because my father was an architect, specialized on foundations.

00:01:53: So i remember like visiting when i was a kid construction sites mainly excavations and with heavy machinery in a lot of concrete.

00:02:04: so...I got attracted by it.

00:02:10: Okay, in every subject.

00:02:12: So I went for architecture And then...I think the education in Barcelona has something to do also with the approach In Switzerland which is mainly around The notion of building or construction.

00:02:34: so i think that's their main connection.

00:02:37: and It was like, I was intuitively attracted by Switzerland.

00:02:43: By the architecture that i could see there.

00:02:45: so I wanted to study also in that country.

00:02:48: yes

00:02:48: yeah and were they already specific themes during your studies?

00:02:53: That strongly influenced you such as material construction or the theme reuse already

00:03:00: no...I mean this topic of re-use is pretty recent in or like the debate around sustainability and which type of materials we used to build.

00:03:14: It was not really important during my studies, but it's true that I was attracted by how to design by defining structural principles principles.

00:03:33: And then in a way also reuse has, we connected with that know.

00:03:38: but the broad or the broader topic it's more construction and structure.

00:03:44: I've been always interested in.

00:03:46: Yeah!

00:03:47: When did this triangle of technique theory and re-use get together?

00:03:55: Or begin to form as current framework for you?

00:04:00: It was a bit also spontaneously during some projects like the first one, maybe it wasn't this pavilion in Barcelona that we did.

00:04:14: some years ago, together with our friends of Cosmos.

00:04:18: And then at the same time... So there it was our own decision to deal with the notion of reuse and circularity in architecture.

00:04:27: It also like a coincidence that we were doing a competition in Basel where here is client itself who proposed dealing this competition with these notions.

00:04:43: kind of a happy coincidence.

00:04:44: Yeah,

00:04:45: after your studies you worked in internationally renowned offices.

00:04:51: which experiences from that period shaped you most professionally or personally?

00:04:57: and was there moment when you realized how you wanted yourself to practice architecture?

00:05:05: There is not this moment of revelation, no?

00:05:08: It's just like an addition of different experiences that maybe you are very much aware or don't know exactly what to take from those things.

00:05:18: but at some point it felt as if all the pieces came together naturally.

00:05:26: But when I worked with Milder Maranta in Basel The lesson that they take is I learned a lot about general culture of architecture, like lots of references.

00:05:46: All the architects you could imagine there were books and strong encouragement to dig into those books together.

00:05:56: knowledge in this backpack we all have now At Herzog, maybe at the Meuron, their approach was slightly different.

00:06:09: So we were not looking so much as references and digging too much into books.

00:06:17: but it was rather almost opposite how to unlearn those things that we have learned kind of know?

00:06:25: And how to approach a project from really this fresh perspective, like almost in a naive way.

00:06:33: But trying to arrive to unconventional solutions and starting the design process with not a preconceived image in our heads but just trusting the process a lot.

00:06:48: And then two thousand twenty one.

00:06:51: you co-founded ParaBase together with Carla Fernando Constanza.

00:06:57: I think when you say we, you meant her and yourself as a continuation of the practice that understands architecture research.

00:07:05: And teaching is connected field?

00:07:08: You had already studied together on both gained experiences in the offices As i said before Before becoming self-employed.

00:07:17: What was the concrete trigger for taking this step into independent practice?

00:07:24: mainly it wasn't maybe in our, where we were working.

00:07:29: We couldn't explore certain interests that we had deeply enough and then we found or tried to find a better frame to explore those interest than what we have.

00:07:45: And how do you work together?

00:07:48: It comes very naturally because we are also like a personal couple.

00:07:54: So, We're always traveling and looking at buildings discussing all the time about architecture.

00:08:00: so I know quite well what Carla thinks And i think that we complimented her very much.

00:08:08: She criticizes my designs.

00:08:11: it's an ongoing conversation back-and forth That is continuous or even outside in the office.

00:08:20: And you both understand circular economy, not only technically but also culturally and socially?

00:08:27: What does that mean concretely for your design process and how does reuse perhaps change the way we look at history resources and building culture?

00:08:39: We understand architecture as these impure art or discipline breathes from every or many disciplines know that it's like, specific technical approach.

00:08:54: but also there is an artistic one a political one and I think that reuse and construction has to do with all of those.

00:09:04: so we... technical approach in reuse, like how you deal with materials that you cannot sometimes control or don't know their properties.

00:09:19: At the same time it's also a political tool where we can question through re-use of how societies assign value to materials.

00:09:32: so Our connection with other disciplines, such as contemporary art or music and fashion where the notion of ready-made is like a central issue in those disciplines.

00:09:51: And it hasn't been that much in architecture.

00:09:55: so we try to combine all these things into this work using architecture.

00:10:01: How does this work?

00:10:02: A large part of your project emerges through competitions and international context.

00:10:09: So how do you shape the design approach, or can it be maintained within real projects?

00:10:16: Good architecture needs good clients so we try to find those clients.

00:10:22: We haven't been lucky enough with private clients.

00:10:25: I'm correct if someone is interested in doing a reuse project to contact us, but we have been more free and found opportunities for better clients at the moment on public field.

00:10:45: To make like an reuse project which it's not normal so rather unconventional An unconventional process, an unconventional way of understanding architecture needs a client that is willing to do so.

00:11:08: You realize projects in Spain and Mexico and Switzerland work in different international contexts?

00:11:16: And you have participated among others on the fifteenth and nineteenth architecture Biennale in Venice and the Triennale Lisbon.

00:11:25: What role do such international platforms play in your conceptual work?

00:11:30: More space of reflection or for

00:11:33: experimentation?".

00:11:35: We understand architecture beyond borders, I mean we are always foreigners from every country.

00:11:44: so when we're in Spain we have the Swiss ones ,when we were in Mexico we had Spanish ones In Switzerland, we are also the Spanish or one.

00:11:54: So no way... We're always foreigners and maybe even an approach that tries to make it work in every context.

00:12:08: so regardless of where you build I think there's certain principles applicable anywhere.

00:12:20: And then, like these international kind of exhibitions it also help us to encounter other ways of doing.

00:12:30: To encounter colleagues and discuss with different colleagues from around the world.

00:12:35: Different approaches that might be possible or different approaches that may be born in a certain context but maybe useful in different contexts.

00:12:45: Yeah!

00:12:47: For teaching it might be interesting as well, your international experience.

00:12:52: You teach in different formats from bachelor foundations to master studios among others and in Bern in Mendrisio internationally in various formats.

00:13:03: In two thousand twenty five you took on a visiting professorship for design and special design at the Bauhaus University in Weimar And you have been a visiting professor at the ETH Zurich.

00:13:17: When did it become clear to you that teaching should be an equal part of your architectural work?

00:13:25: This comes from very early in our education, where especially in Spain... ...the figure of Rafael Moneo is crucial and essential for everyone….

00:13:37: …and he advocates this idea like having data on all kinds.

00:13:42: Meaningful practice has to have like these three legs, which are... Which is the practice.

00:13:47: The research and publication and teaching.

00:13:50: And for us it's kind of.

00:13:55: we didn't even discuss that.

00:13:56: so We don't really or understand our practice bridges from all this labels That one might put.

00:14:06: But at the end there was a difference between professional practice or building and teaching.

00:14:14: So in a way the same theoretical frame, our operational framework that we have at our office... We also have it in our studio of the university.

00:14:26: And what would you like to convey students about architecture?

00:14:30: That perhaps goes beyond classical design education or classical design Education.

00:14:37: I mean how do you teach?

00:14:40: So we try to emphasize on the technical aspect of architecture, because we think that it has been lately slightly neglected.

00:14:55: To embrace those tools of architects... within which we can deal with like construction, with the structure.

00:15:07: With understanding materials really from almost a scientific point of view and at the same time bridging that... Covering this spectrum also from very technical thing to most artistic understandings of discipline in any way or some trying to remove preconceived ideas of what architecture is for the students.

00:15:36: That's also an important part that we try do, you know?

00:15:41: Like... Try a question and be critical almost on every aspect in design process.

00:15:52: And does your approach always the same or it depends differently from other countries?

00:15:59: So the theoretical frame, as I said it's kind of like in the practice.

00:16:03: so if we try to have let say an operational frame that is same Switzerland and Mexico.

00:16:13: We tried do also teaching this teaching frame very much similar.

00:16:22: We somehow did kind of approach the semester in the same way when we were at the Bauhaus environment with first year students, than what was at the ETH in Switzerland.

00:16:32: With like almost last-year students and there is a huge difference between knowledge and experience.

00:16:41: But also, we approach it with the same frame when taught in the Port Academy last year during one week.

00:16:51: So I think that for us is important to establish these frames or strategies and processes or protocols which are versatile enough to deal like different skill levels... ...to be different timeframes and institutions.

00:17:10: How do you teach students who want to learn it the classical way?

00:17:15: My understanding is that you design or work with something already there.

00:17:22: What's going on when students would like to learn from zero, twenty years ago?

00:17:31: Or maybe it's still today that way.

00:17:33: I mean, i don't think there is like a specific or better way of designing so... Of course one of the peculiarities in our teaching is we really start from scale kind of one to five developing construction techniques and when I was a student at university, i started the design from always one to thousand scale.

00:18:02: So then this urban or territorial approach to their construction method if we have time for them because usually that's not even part of discussion nowadays It is because of the environmental, economic and political social context that we live in.

00:18:25: And architecture plays a role on.

00:18:27: it's not like an isolated phenomenon has to answer to this question.

00:18:31: We think by starting design from these deep understanding of construction and material maybe its most meaningful way the most contemporary way of addressing certain issues.

00:18:49: Still, this frame gives room for classical considerations on architecture like at the end.

00:19:00: our formation let's say If we compare it with the entire world, Spain and Switzerland in the early two thousands were educating architects.

00:19:11: In a rather conservative and orthodox way.

00:19:14: so our heritage is also like orthodox.

00:19:19: So we like to design in today thinking about typological issues, and thinking about space is the most canonical way but we think that this can be also thought from other perspectives or these canonical central parts of architecture which still thinks it's a core of our discipline can approach.

00:19:48: So, which skills maybe in a nutshell or ways of thinking should students definitely develop?

00:19:55: Especially with regard to resources material and cycles.

00:19:59: And interdisciplinary collaboration is also very important topic.

00:20:05: The first thing that we try to do with our students is look at the immediate environment, usually cities in different eyes.

00:20:15: To understand and look for potential minds or sources of materials within our city's.

00:20:23: And this simple operation alterates also how we read our environments but it also helps us understand societies as well.

00:20:33: This is a very important point in a way, change our view on reality.

00:20:40: At the same time trust and process.

00:20:44: I think reuse entails an aspect of architecture which is uncertainty.

00:20:54: You never know, or with a conventional process of construction where you can dictate and specify exactly the characteristics of the material.

00:21:13: Sometimes the material, I don't know you make some tests and then their results are like different well of what you expected.

00:21:21: The material is not available anymore because of whatever reason.

00:21:25: um And so on.

00:21:26: no So your buildings or your design have to consider this uncertainty in a higher degree.

00:21:33: And then this, I think it's like a valuable lesson also for the design process.

00:21:36: Not to trust the process and understand designs as processes but not so much of a finite result or with a preconceived idea what these buildings should look like in our heads.

00:21:51: That is something that I have to sum

00:21:53: up.

00:21:55: The goal was also give students a standing for their professional ways afterwards.

00:22:02: I mean, they have to convince others too.

00:22:05: try to live with uncertainty you know?

00:22:09: Of course like students Leave university with strong skills that are more the core of architecture regarding designing, drawing.

00:22:20: But maybe most important thing is developing critical thinking as architects but also as citizens.

00:22:28: so this is like final or the most important things.

00:22:33: You understand architecture as a technical, cultural and political act.

00:22:37: Where do you currently see the greatest responsibility for architects in dealing with resources or material cycles?

00:22:48: I think we have to be aware of what is going on around the world that we live kind of, we are obliged to rethink the way we build but also the way that we live.

00:23:08: So also regarding what is comfort how do you want to leave together in coming years?

00:23:16: Also like regarding care issues and how do we want to live as a society too?

00:23:23: so all those issues have to be tackled by architects.

00:23:27: having said this I think citizens and politicians, I mean we are also as architects.

00:23:34: We're also citizens but...we have even more like a higher responsibility in shaping the future world than architects.

00:23:43: if i or greater power rather then architect at the end who has architects and these I see it's like every day were very much constrained with regulations of what regulation dictates or what their regulation allows, like I want to design schools that don't need mechanical machinery.

00:24:04: To be climatized but the regulations doesn't allow me do that.

00:24:10: so it's like the regulation and clients can do a lot.

00:24:15: Yeah as you said before You needed good client also.

00:24:19: The last question concerning the interdisciplinarity.

00:24:23: again This is, for example with engineering or sociology a central theme in your work.

00:24:30: Which ways of thinking should students develop today?

00:24:34: In order to work productively in such constellations and interdisciplinary constellations?

00:24:42: So at the end it's very simple but understanding... Or learning how speak to conversate with another person listening what they say and digesting it, getting the most out of being critical with that answering back.

00:25:05: And then taking things that can improve the project.

00:25:09: knows?

00:25:09: This is like a process in our professional practice.

00:25:14: we do constantly.

00:25:16: so this constant exchange everyone, like with a lot of specialists.

00:25:23: With a lot as an FAC planner but also clients or users and especially even in competitions or design projects that are not meant to be implemented.

00:25:38: we always work together with the structural engineers or sustainability specialists and this starts from the very first day that you start designing.

00:25:51: This conversation has to start at that moment, they are not specialists who use it for certain problems in the end of their process but rather have to be involved from the beginning.

00:26:04: Yeah!

00:26:05: And is quite opposite of iconic single person being a star architect, it's teamwork.

00:26:14: Absolutely I mean... It has always been a team work just like they have tried to sell the story that each one single genius.

00:26:23: but this is never.. This hasn't ever been like this even in them i don't know or for us like its clear best projects even in the previous years.

00:26:37: So when you look at Pompidou, for instance it's Rogers and piano yes but also Peter Rice or like most of the projects that interest us the most from Rem Koolhaas trajectory are the ones where Cecil Balmont was heavily involved.

00:26:58: I can't speak about most of the projects that we like, they have this characteristic.

00:27:04: That maybe their name or a single architect is what stands out the most.

00:27:10: but when you dig into it?

00:27:12: The reality's very

00:27:12: different.".

00:27:13: Yeah yeah... But as you said, the story has to be told!

00:27:17: Maybe with here are different stories from new generation because its changing and I feel shift that new generations more collaborative not much competitive.

00:27:28: Yeah, I think so too.

00:27:31: I don't know if i'm naive but it can also be because our situation is not as good as previous years.

00:27:37: So we have like all sort of joint forces or we are kind of obliged to join forces this kind.

00:27:43: But I think There is also a shift in the conception of our profession and how we show ourselves to the studio.

00:27:51: That was

00:27:51: Starting To Build, The Baunetz Campus Alumni Podcast presented by Gira!

00:27:56: We look forward to you tuning-in

00:28:03: again next time

00:28:05: for the interview.

00:28:07: Thank You very much for the interviewee.