#85 Parametrischer Designer: Warum ist Technologie auch eine kritisch-kulturelle Frage?

00:00:00: Welcome and greetings to the Eighty-fifth episode of Studying to Build, the Baunetz Campus Alumni Podcast presented by Gira.

00:00:09: I am

00:00:09: Kerstin Kunekatz and my guest today is André Gipa.

00:00:14: Let's get started.

00:00:15: Welcome to the Baunetz Campus Alumni Podcast, André Gipa.

00:00:20: You are an architect, researcher and co-founder of the company Conturo.

00:00:25: and senior researcher at the Chair of Digital Building Technologies at the ETH Zurich.

00:00:32: You started architecture in Bucharest, Sheffield and London.

00:00:37: How did these very different educational environments shape you and did a technological focus already begin to emerge at that time?

00:00:48: Thank you very much for the introduction and for the question.

00:00:52: So yeah, it's very different.

00:00:54: teaching environments and environments in general, Bucharest, Sheffield, London and ETH Zurich.

00:01:02: I can talk I think quite a bit about them independently and specifically and please stop me if I digress too much.

00:01:10: I think in Bucharest specifically I have to say I was there almost twenty years ago so I don't know how relevant what I remember still is.

00:01:20: But it was a school that was very much shaped in this modernist tradition with very much focusing on rigor, with this very structured approach, very comprehensive, the curriculum basically covered everything end to end.

00:01:36: We're given like a complete package with a big emphasis on skills.

00:01:42: So we even learned technical ink drawing and watercolors.

00:01:49: and we're not allowed to use computer-aided design.

00:01:54: Again, this was twenty years ago.

00:01:55: Yeah,

00:01:55: yeah, this has changed.

00:01:56: Pretty sure things have changed, yes.

00:02:00: And it was very much a school, a little bit leaning on the right wing of the political spectrum somehow.

00:02:07: So also with this vision of the architect as a universal... creator, almost like a social engineer, very visionary, moralist, with a huge role in society, a bit egocentric somehow.

00:02:23: And in general, quite conservative.

00:02:26: And I think I did struggle a little bit with fitting in somehow, and I don't think I understood back then why it was just a little bit of discomfort.

00:02:37: And then, yeah, I had this Erasmus exchange at the University of Sheffield.

00:02:42: This is in the north of England.

00:02:43: And I did discover that things are not so prescribed, that this dogma that was almost part of the culture in Bucharest is not universal.

00:02:54: And I think very much Sheffield was aligned with a lot, I think, of universities in Western Europe.

00:03:02: A little bit more left-wing politically.

00:03:05: more this bottom-up approach with a focus on community and the user and not centered on the architect ego somehow.

00:03:15: Also a lot of topics that were new to me but were not new in the architecture on the architecture agenda.

00:03:22: So sustainability and inclusivity, these were also very much in focus.

00:03:27: And I think it was more, and this is valid, I think also Sheffield and Wetzminster.

00:03:32: And I think about ETH Zurich, I'm not familiar because I didn't study a program there, but I think it's also valid there, where the focus is more on learning how to design, learning how to think, how to generate ideas, how to test them, how to inform decisions, learning almost how to achieve a certain coherence, like a conceptual coherence and a narrative.

00:03:59: and not so much on the, let's say, design theory that is almost this imposed design theory that's canonical and almost dogmatic that is dictated by the architect.

00:04:10: So yeah, quite a big difference and it was, from my side, good to have this...

00:04:15: Other perspective.

00:04:16: Perspective of both, yes, both worlds and I'm sure there are more options in more worlds and everywhere has its own specificity somehow.

00:04:27: It shows how valuable Erasmus is to

00:04:29: go out.

00:04:30: Yes, yes, for sure, for sure.

00:04:33: And the other question, I think the other part of the question was if my interest in technology started during my studies, it did somehow.

00:04:42: I think in the UK, so I did there my the end of my bachelor's and my master's degree.

00:04:47: And there the system is that you have a year out is called.

00:04:51: So after three years of bachelor's you have to work in practice as an assistant and this is part of your studies.

00:04:58: So I think it's a very valuable instrument somehow in education.

00:05:02: It exposes students a lot to the realities of the construction industry.

00:05:10: And I did my year out in very conventional Company and I worked on listed buildings in London.

00:05:19: So on the London palladium palladium the refurbishment of the Drury Lane Royal Royal Theatre on the St Pancras so really listed buildings in London.

00:05:30: There was a lot of work at that point that went in refurbishments and new developments are relatively Difficult in such a build such a densely built city and I think the background there.

00:05:42: what what's maybe important to say is that I did this in around two thousand eight two thousand nine and this was in the middle of this great recession.

00:05:55: And this really shook me a little bit.

00:05:57: I was really a little bit disheartened and a little bit.

00:06:01: disappointed almost because everyone was sort of suffering.

00:06:05: there were no jobs.

00:06:06: there was no work.

00:06:07: even when there was a company that had some work.

00:06:10: they did this salary cuts or massive layoffs.

00:06:13: I worked for a company that had two hundred employees when I started and three years later.

00:06:18: when I left we were thirty five and they sort of sold half the building.

00:06:22: they actually first one of the floors then half of the floor that was left.

00:06:26: So it was really this environment, the atmosphere was a bit grim.

00:06:31: I think everyone who remembers this time, it was not the best time somehow.

00:06:37: And I think in this context, I really had some big questions on career-wise, what should I do and what can I do.

00:06:45: And it also triggered me a little bit to really explore and try new things.

00:06:51: And this was one of them, it was up and coming.

00:06:54: discussions on parametric architecture and technology and digital fabrication kind of started, but it was not, I think nowadays it's really mainstream.

00:07:06: I wouldn't say that, but it's an on topic, but still it's not that common.

00:07:10: I agree, but I think rather what I meant is that in an architecture course, even in bachelor's degree, you are exposed at least to ideas or there's an elective course that you can do also.

00:07:23: Whereas I think, yeah, fifteen, twenty years ago it was more an exception rather than the rule that you had this.

00:07:32: This was the one year off you said, so you are still in the time when you are studying, when you discovered the computational.

00:07:40: Yes, it was before I started my master's degree.

00:07:44: I had these massive questions.

00:07:45: In general, the financial situation in the architecture and construction industry was the sort of the right context to have these questions in doubt somehow.

00:07:58: Then at Westminster is where I really, you had to choose a studio basically and one of the studios was really focusing a lot on parametric design and digital fabrication.

00:08:09: This was from Toby Burgess and Artum of Money.

00:08:13: And I had nothing to do so far with that approach.

00:08:17: And on this background of doubts and questionings, I thought, yeah, let's give it a go.

00:08:22: Let's give it a try.

00:08:24: And it came also, I think it was somehow a complete package, because at that time I was also interested a lot in the philosophy of Deleuze and of Felix Quartier.

00:08:36: and their ideas of the rhizome and the folds and the striated space versus the smooth space and I really saw great connection between these two worlds somehow and that it doesn't have to be hierarchical that there are other ways of doing things than this conservative prescribed way and it really worked very well not just formally not just this literal interpretation of the smooth space with continuous curves and so on, but also on the structure of architecture and on this idea.

00:09:07: that process is a very important part of the entire

00:09:13: process.

00:09:14: I get what you mean.

00:09:15: You were nominated for your work then for the Reba Presidents Medal.

00:09:20: What you did impressed the jury and what did that nomination mean to you?

00:09:25: It was a bit somehow an odd ball that my tutors threw in, or at least this is how I saw it, because it was quite different.

00:09:32: I was really investing quite a lot in developing computational design tools.

00:09:38: I got my little freely printer and I was really experimenting a lot.

00:09:43: And it was quite different to the other projects, even the projects in the same studio that were also doing computational design, but in a, let's say, more confined way.

00:09:54: And I was really pushing things a bit more and I think it was a more radical project.

00:09:59: I don't think it was particularly successful, but it was maybe the fact that it was quite brave in the approach and really a little bit out there and a little bit thinking outside the box.

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00:11:03: Before your PhD, you worked at offices such as DUS Architects, MAD and R.H.W.L Which experiences from this international practice still influence your work today?

00:11:19: I think all of them.

00:11:19: So R.H.W.L.

00:11:20: was this office where I did the refurbishment project in London.

00:11:25: In general, the company focused on spaces for the performing arts.

00:11:30: Theatres.

00:11:31: We worked there with Andrew Lloyd Webber, the Baron, the composer of Phantom of the Opera, who owned sixteen theatres.

00:11:40: There were always, one of them was being refurbished or extended or so.

00:11:44: So we worked on Theatre Royal, Drew Lane and London Palladium.

00:11:48: And this was really an incredibly interesting experience working directly and closely with the client who had very clear ideas on what he wanted and it was inspiring.

00:12:02: But at the same time, something that I think is indirectly... influencing me.

00:12:08: I don't really do any kind of refurbishment work anymore.

00:12:12: But it was definitely a learning process.

00:12:15: And then MAD and Dush Architects, I did their very short three-month internships.

00:12:23: And this is where I started to be interested in digital fabrication and computational design.

00:12:28: And I wanted to try this also in different environments.

00:12:32: So MAD is in Beijing, in China.

00:12:35: MAD in Amsterdam.

00:12:38: forced myself a little bit to put myself in these situations to travel a bit and see if it really makes sense.

00:12:44: And after that you started your PhD at the ETH and you investigated three-D printed formwork for complex concrete geometries.

00:12:55: What key insight did you take from that research?

00:13:00: Yes, it was quite a technical PhD.

00:13:04: So I would say maybe something that I think is important to an important message.

00:13:10: My PhD focused a lot on concrete, of course, digital concrete, part of this bigger research stream on digital concrete.

00:13:19: So using computational design and digital fabrication to improve the way we build with concrete.

00:13:24: I think concrete has a bad image in general, a bad reputation.

00:13:30: Within this discourse of sustainable architecture, there's always the claim that concrete is responsible for six, five, eight, sometimes ten percent of the CO₂ emissions.

00:13:41: And this is true, but we have to also think about the fact that concrete is the most used material in the world.

00:13:49: It's actually... used twice as much as all the other materials combined.

00:13:54: so if we put together all the glass bricks and metals steels aluminium and so on and We multiply that by two.

00:14:05: We're still not to the amount of.

00:14:07: we still don't reach the amount of concrete we use.

00:14:10: So if we think about it, we use let's say sixty percent of the materials used worldwide is concrete and Concrete only emits eight percent of the co-two worldwide.

00:14:22: We see that there's a discrepancy there and this means that maybe concrete is not that bad somehow.

00:14:29: I don't want to be an apologist of concrete.

00:14:33: Yes, exactly.

00:14:34: I'm not associated with any concrete lobbying body also.

00:14:38: But I think it's important to also understand that concrete has its role.

00:14:41: And it is a very, very useful material.

00:14:44: It's incredibly versatile.

00:14:45: It can be cast in any conceivable shape.

00:14:48: It's made usually of locally available materials.

00:14:50: We just need limestone and gravel from a riverbed.

00:14:57: So it has incredible advantages.

00:14:58: Also, structurally, it's performance.

00:15:01: It's hard to match it with other materials.

00:15:05: It's also this discourse that we can.

00:15:08: we have to just use timber which is a more sustainable material and so it's valid to a certain point.

00:15:14: but we cannot replace all concrete construction with timber.

00:15:17: that's also would create other even bigger problems.

00:15:22: So every material has its role.

00:15:23: of course timber is as great value and we should use it thoughtfully and we should be resourceful also in the way we design with all materials.

00:15:32: but I think we shouldn't neglect and we shouldn't do this sort of desk reject that concrete is bad and we have to avoid it and not use it.

00:15:40: Since two thousand twenty

00:15:42: two, you have

00:15:42: been a postdoctoral and senior researcher at the chair of digital building technologies.

00:15:48: Are these the questions that are currently at the center of your work?

00:15:52: Fundamentally, we look into ways of improving concrete and this can be a material science question.

00:16:00: So how do we improve formulations, whether it's supplementary cementitious materials, so replacing Portland cement with more sustainable alternatives or replacing aggregates with recycled aggregates instead of virgin aggregates or having aggregates that trap carbon.

00:16:23: So there's really a holistic view.

00:16:25: And my work focuses more on optimization, reducing the amount of concrete we use by designing complex shapes that respond better to their context.

00:16:35: And this can be either performed structurally better with less material or functionally.

00:16:41: So we also have projects where we look into activating concrete for thermal heating, cooling.

00:16:49: scenarios so basically entire slabs for example can become a radiator and this means that we have very little supply temperature for the water coils that heat or cool the this radiant panels also integrating high performance and high efficiency ventilation systems or ventilation ducts that are digitally fabricated integrated in slabs and reduce the amount of energy we need to operate the space.

00:17:17: so Your work also links design, simulation and fabrication and digital process chains.

00:17:25: Where do you see the biggest obstacles today for creating a continuous seamless workflow?

00:17:32: I think I have a bit of a blind spot because for me this is somehow indistinguishable from architectural practice.

00:17:39: I think one of the biggest challenges now is really the advent of AI tools and This is something that's always happened.

00:17:50: We've always had new design tools but the pace and the rate at which the change happens today is much faster than before and we don't have this almost like a generation of students that go through the life cycle of a certain tool and then a new tool comes along and so on.

00:18:09: This cycle is much faster now and even within one year we have a shift and a change and an improvement in the tools and we always speak of something new whether it's I don't know.

00:18:20: we started with neural networks and then adversarial networks and then large language models.

00:18:26: now we speak about world models so it's really a very very fast changing landscape and this makes it difficult for keeping up basically with a tool.

00:18:38: Because they're all exciting, they all bring something new, they're all worth exploring.

00:18:41: but it also takes a bit of time to get used to that tool and at the same time you also have to develop a project and you can't spend all your time learning new tools constantly.

00:18:52: So I think this is one of the challenges and it's a question for me if this will somehow reach a plateau because there's also with every new tool somehow there's this fast development rate in the beginning and at some point that they sort of stabilize and they are adopted and used on a more general basis.

00:19:12: I wonder now, and I don't know what the answer is, if this will ever stabilize or we're going to keep this fast development rate, this will keep going.

00:19:23: And it's rather a question that we have to adapt and we have to learn how to learn faster and learn how to integrate these new tools in our practice.

00:19:33: on a constant regular basis.

00:19:35: So this will be a bigger paradigm shift somehow.

00:19:37: But we'll see.

00:19:38: We'll see what will happen.

00:19:41: You are part of the ETH Zürich research team that developed the prototype of a novel high-resolution concrete slab using new energy-saving fabrication methods.

00:19:54: The high-res concrete slab uses forty-three, three-D printed formwork elements.

00:20:00: What did the research and development process look like.

00:20:04: and what did this project teach you about the practical feasibility of digital fabrication?

00:20:12: Yes, so we did quite a few different slab projects.

00:20:17: Slabs are one of the main typologies of building elements that we focus on because slabs proportionally have the biggest ratio of concrete use in a concrete frame building.

00:20:30: So as the most material goes to slabs and that's where we look into slabs a lot because that's where the biggest potential of saving material is.

00:20:36: Let's put it simply and also slabs usually concentrate most of the building system.

00:20:43: So heating ventilation or conditioning usually goes in either within a slab or below a slab above a Suspended ceiling.

00:20:52: so we did quite a few.

00:20:53: I think we have two slabs in build projects one in a residential unit one an office unit and we have quite a few prototypes and they investigate different Concepts or approaches looking into off-site on-site fabrication different types of freely printed formworks and as you said integrating Building services building systems acoustic performance thermal insulation and so on.

00:21:18: One comment about the activity of the chair.

00:21:22: the professor is Benjamin Dillenburger.

00:21:25: He started it in two thousand fifteen and I joined very soon after and one of his seminal papers is quite broadly cited nowadays.

00:21:35: it's the resolution of architecture in the digital age and this is somehow almost a motor or a driver of the chair and they're one of the One of the ideas is that with digital tools, we have this ability to design with just a few lines of code geometries in the digital environment that we don't even have the ability to imagine beforehand.

00:21:59: So we're all almost surprised by the results of the tool.

00:22:03: And this is

00:22:05: great.

00:22:06: Again, I think it's it's a very intimate connection somehow between the designer and the architect and the tool.

00:22:14: It's not really a tool anymore.

00:22:16: It's sort of part of the process and it's a little bit like in Quantum Mechanics where you have this uncertainty principle that when you look at something you change its state.

00:22:26: I think it's the same with digital tools.

00:22:29: Using digital tools changes what you want to design and it's part of the process.

00:22:33: You cannot distinguish between the... It's no longer an architect and the tool.

00:22:38: It's really this... symbiosis almost, that the process is part of the designed result.

00:22:45: I'm trying to bring this back somehow to the question about... the slabs in the learnings.

00:22:51: I find it a bit challenging because there's always a theoretical aspect to this question and to our approach and also this materializes somehow very technically into quantifiable numbers that we measure and we say we used this much less material and the life cycle assessment says the CO² footprint is this much smaller.

00:23:10: And

00:23:12: it's interesting that this lab saves around seventy percent of material compared to a conventional reinforced concrete floor.

00:23:19: This is significant.

00:23:21: It is significant.

00:23:22: It's I think important to mention that these savings have to be twofold.

00:23:29: So if you think of a lifecycle of a building, there's of course the embedded carbon, which goes in the construction in the material itself that's used for the building.

00:23:38: But just depending on the type of building and on its life span, this is usually a smaller proportion compared to the operational energy.

00:23:48: So the energy that that building will use throughout its life cycle for lighting, heating, ventilation, cooling and so on.

00:23:58: And always when we design we have this in mind as well, that it's of course important to save material in the beginning, but integrating highly efficient thermal concepts for heating cooling.

00:24:12: It's very important and digital tools also enable us to do this also with on the fabrication side and also on simulating and designing the best possible system for that scenario.

00:24:26: Yeah.

00:24:28: Let's come back to your personal career and talk about Conturo.

00:24:34: In two thousand twenty five this year, you and Angela, you founded the spin of Conturo.

00:24:40: It's very fresh.

00:24:42: What prompted you to take the step from the university environment into building your own company?

00:24:50: Yes, indeed.

00:24:50: We started the company together.

00:24:53: We also worked at the age in research.

00:24:56: We did quite a few projects together in the past, I think almost ten years.

00:25:00: I have to say, this is not my first endeavor as a company, let's say, in London.

00:25:09: Before I moved to Zurich and after I graduated, I had a small consultancy that was called Jammed and I was operating with a similar scope, so doing consulting for computational design and digital fabrication.

00:25:25: It did somehow stem from the studio I was at Westminster in.

00:25:31: DS then of Arthur and Toby and there we were really encouraged and Supported somehow to have this entrepreneurial mindset.

00:25:44: It was also a lot related to the makeup movement to these ideas of fab labs to Wikonomics is this Amazing book by Tab Scott and Williams and they talk about collaboration and about peering about sharing knowledge about engaging.

00:26:04: these large distributed networks in.

00:26:06: the book is more about business but this also applies to architecture.

00:26:10: somehow and again it comes back to this crisis that the architecture community was going through in the in the two thousand eight two thousand nine and there were a lot of ideas emerging on them.

00:26:23: wiki house or wiki desk of these projects that are sort of distributed.

00:26:27: Let's not go back to two thousand eight.

00:26:29: Come back to two thousand twenty

00:26:31: five.

00:26:31: So in the same ethos, let's say this idea of putting to practice something that you do as an architect independently and not part of this hierarchical system.

00:26:44: I still very much treasure this and it was also an intent to.

00:26:50: not let these projects that we worked on in our research activity sort of fade out so that they shouldn't be just in the end printed in a thesis and cited a few times, but rather try to really bring them to market and really test them.

00:27:07: This is in the end the real test if the research is valuable and if the seventy percent of material that we can use actually survives the test of the market somehow.

00:27:16: So it's a laboratory for applied material research.

00:27:21: Somehow, yes.

00:27:22: It's also a network.

00:27:23: so we were part of a big grant of twelve years in a TTH from the National Science Foundation that was split into three phases.

00:27:33: The first two phases were focused on more fundamental research and on large-scale prototypes and now in the third phase it's approaching the end and they really support the transition, this knowledge transfer to industry, spin-offs, startups.

00:27:47: So this is part of the goal of this research that we did at ETH, is also to make sure that it's commercially useful somehow, that it can be meaningful beyond a few papers that are published in actual practice.

00:28:04: I would like to talk about this fantastic sculpture, Sardos.

00:28:10: A sculpture is like a big head.

00:28:12: You can walk inside.

00:28:14: You developed and assembled thirty-eight pre-fabricated concrete elements.

00:28:20: What did this project teach you about the limitations and possibilities of digital fabrication at urban scale?

00:28:29: Just a little clarification.

00:28:32: We didn't design this.

00:28:33: This was a Scottish artist, monster jet wind.

00:28:36: It's her project.

00:28:37: It's her concept, basically.

00:28:39: And our role was to basically transform it from a thirty centimeter clay sculpture that she did by hand into an eight meter high walk in sculpture slash playground.

00:28:54: fantastic.

00:28:56: And this was a big challenge I think let's say in terms of the technical challenges they were.

00:29:04: manageable and they were even somehow technically was less challenging than the work we did at DTH as part of the research because this was clearly that it had to be something that is feasible.

00:29:16: We couldn't afford to really try new things and new materials.

00:29:19: The project budget and timeline didn't allow for this.

00:29:24: So we had to use things that were relatively ready.

00:29:28: I would say the bigger challenge was exactly this, like dealing with a real-world budget and timeline and contractors.

00:29:34: We also did the project management for the entire project, which was challenging because there we had many subcontractors specializing in the production of the slide.

00:29:45: There's a slide of the back of the sculpture.

00:29:46: I should describe it a bit, so there's basically a massive head that is inspired by the Azados, a movie from the seventies.

00:29:54: And you can walk inside as a climbing net for kids, but adults can use it as well with a tunnel that goes to an eye and then opening at the top with a viewing platform at the top and the slide that takes you back down to the ground floor.

00:30:10: So there's quite a bit of complexity in the... not just in the digital fabrication of this massive free-form concrete shell, but also in the fact that we had to coordinate playground specialists and concrete specialists and timber specialists, and we had to make sure that it all comes together.

00:30:28: And this was a bit above the scale of projects that we did at ETH.

00:30:34: So the problem was not the technical issue.

00:30:38: I also don't want to underestimate it.

00:30:39: This was also a challenge.

00:30:40: So technically it is digitally fabricated and also we face some challenges.

00:30:46: But I would say they were just not at these level of fundamental research questions that we had at ETH.

00:30:52: They were rather more engineering problems.

00:30:55: And for us, I think the biggest challenge was this.

00:30:58: landscape of contractors and clients and Kunsthaus and the artist to sort of coordinate and it was very enjoyable.

00:31:06: So everyone was committed to the project and excited and this was clearly a unique opportunity somehow.

00:31:12: Everyone saw it.

00:31:14: But coordination was nevertheless very tight and it had its degree of complexity.

00:31:20: Bonnet's campus wrote an article about it.

00:31:22: So the listeners can read it and of course see the pictures.

00:31:27: The sculpture is modular and designed for complete disassembly.

00:31:32: What role does circularity play in your work and what lessons from this project can be transferred into everyday building practice?

00:31:44: Yes, clearly.

00:31:45: I think this circularity is a very, very important topic, very high up on the agenda, also in research now.

00:31:53: I'm very happy to see that now we also start to shift a little bit the discourse from demolition as a natural end of a building's life cycle to almost more of an exception and that this should really be a plan C or D and that we should really rethink the way we think the end of the life cycle of a building.

00:32:18: It's clearly now very important to design for this assembly, design with the end of a building's life cycle in mind.

00:32:27: And there's quite a bit of research that also goes on at ETH that has this idea in a very central position somehow.

00:32:41: And yeah, with Zardos, it was really... It's a very valuable concept somehow because the Kunsthaus had this commission for two years in a little park that's behind a new Chipperfield building in Zurich.

00:32:59: And also it was a bit terrifying to think that we use now one hundred tons of concrete there for two years and then they are all discarded.

00:33:08: So from the start we... approached initially a bit tentatively this idea that this can be dismantled because this is in itself quite a big challenge.

00:33:19: to build something so that it's built for a hundred years is one thing but to build such a huge literally a hundred tons there's some of the elements are three tons heavy to build it in a way that it can be relatively easily dismantled and reassembled somewhere else.

00:33:34: It presents its own set of challenges.

00:33:37: But I think in the end it was really worth it because it's definitely the right thing to do.

00:33:42: I think Kun's house and the curator... Raphael Gigax already found the next site, so we know already in two years time it will travel to a new city.

00:33:52: That's

00:33:52: great.

00:33:53: So it will be used again.

00:33:55: Yes.

00:33:55: And there's a chance that you even can build circular houses with concrete.

00:34:01: I mean nowadays concrete is very difficult to be reused normally.

00:34:08: Yes, I think it's also a question of culture because For example, in Switzerland, this is relatively uncommon to build with prefabricated concrete.

00:34:16: They have almost a culture of the in-situ concrete, of this perfect textured concrete surface with a certain quality.

00:34:24: It's either smooth or shiny, or it can have the wood grain visible.

00:34:29: And then, of course, it makes it difficult if you have a monolithic building with several floors to reuse it.

00:34:34: But of course, precast approaches are much more... appropriate and much more suitable for disassembly and reuse.

00:34:44: And cultures can change.

00:34:46: Cultures can change and there are countries where this is clearly much more used.

00:34:50: I think in Scandinavia this is used on a broader scale than in-situ concrete.

00:34:57: It might have something to do with the climate.

00:34:59: You really have a small window where you can cast concrete where it's not freezing in the north and you have to cast it in a plant.

00:35:06: I don't know exactly why but It really changes and varies from country to country.

00:35:11: And as you say, cultures can and should change sometimes.

00:35:15: Especially when we've got a climate problem.

00:35:17: Exactly, yes.

00:35:18: So we have to find solutions anyway.

00:35:20: So yeah, we come to the last point.

00:35:24: You have taught computational design for many years.

00:35:27: What skills do young architects need today in order to work competently and critically in the field of digital construction?

00:35:38: You've touched on a very good point.

00:35:40: I have to say I don't teach so much anymore.

00:35:42: I did indeed until four years ago, so I was quite involved in teaching.

00:35:49: I gradually sort of focused more on research.

00:35:54: I think I touched upon this point a little bit previously when I said that really the landscape is changing quite radically with this advent of AI technology and we're almost overwhelmed with the amount of research and new developments that come from this area and we've seen how radically they can change some other fields.

00:36:18: and we should be prepared and I think for new architects and educators and students this is important to keep in mind that this change is happening, we're part of it and we have to prepare ourselves the best we can to still be relevant somehow.

00:36:34: And you touched upon this reflection point.

00:36:37: I think this is key that we should not forget in this hype of new tools and new technologies.

00:36:45: We should not forget to stay reflective and critical and that we still rely on this fundamental set of skills that make us good designers.

00:36:56: and the tools are in the end.

00:36:58: even if as I described them they sort of change a lot in their integral part of the process they're still tools.

00:37:04: or if you want to call them aids or supports or whatever they are yeah so be versatile be open stay curious and I think even now I would say I'm in a not in the best position to give advice but if I could have some thoughts I think they go in this direction.

00:37:22: Yeah,

00:37:22: thank you very much, André Gipa, for the interview and the time spent.

00:37:27: Thank you very much as well, and I appreciate you hosting me.

00:37:29: Thank you.

00:37:30: Thank you.

00:37:31: That was Studying to Build, the Baunetz Campus Alumni Podcast presented by Gira.

00:37:37: We look forward to you tuning in again next time and leaving us a review.

00:37:43: Editing and publication, Katharina Lux, Baunetz Campus.

00:37:46: Moderation and Audio Production, me casting Kunekat Berlin,